Obama

[Cletus]

Everyone,
I do feel that it is wrong, and also sad, that the oceans and many other parts of our planet are becoming mucked with our garbage. I also feel the same way about animals, God's creation, becoming hunted to extinction. I do not believe, though, that when Morella'sForest mentioned environmentalism, that he/she was referring to being a good steward of God's creation. Fanatical environmentalism, which is fueled by the atheistic belief that there is nothing more to existence than the physical realm (which the Bible teaches will all be destroyed one day to make way for Christ's new earth), undermines the fact that God gave the animals and plants to mankind for mankind's use. I strongly advocate being a good steward of God's creation, but I do not support the radical environmentalism that replaces God's charge to man (to take care of and to use the earth) with a doctrine that makes the earth a god which humanity blasphemes.

To tie this back to the discussion, I cannot comprehend why anyone, especially Christians, would place environmental policy above the lives of unborn children. It makes no sense to me to why a Christian would vote for any candidate who fights to conserve sea lions but allows innocent babies to die. Why do these liberal candidates think that sea lions have a "right to life", but babies do not? Why do Christians, or any person with a sense of morality, vote for these candidates? The above question totally flabbergasts me.

When it all comes down to it, unborn children are a part of God's creation, and they are being killed at a rate much greater than polar bears are. As I said before, humans are charged to be good stewards of creation--a creation which includes unborn children. Abortion, simply put, is murder. It is no different from taking someone's life out of anger. It is no different from starving a fully sentient "vegetative" human being to death simply because one is tired of taking care of her. It is no different from war crimes. All of the above atrocities are murder. Those who practice them are murderers, and all murderers should face sanctions. Those who carry out abortions are no different from serial killers. Is this a radical view for me to hold? In today's society, yes it is. And I don't even care in the least that it is radical, because it is the truth, and I will firmly standby it forever.

[juniorforce]

Wow! Great defense for the unborn!

[MorellasForest]

How any Christian can support Obama or anyone who is for so called abortion rights (infanticide) is beyond me

War is not wrong for Christians either. There is no draft, so you don't have to sign up if you don't want to. People crashing planes into buildings of innocent people is a just cause for war.

Then you might as well say abortion is not wrong. You don't have to sign up to have your unborn baby killed if you don't want to. Nearly all of the people who die in wars are innocent people.

There is such a thing as a just war. World War II is a great example of that. What might have happened if everyone here thought war was inherently evil and must not be attempted?

[MorellasForest]

Environmentalism is a political religion that is at many points antithetical to biblical Christianity. War is not wrong for Christians either. There is no draft, so you don't have to sign up if you don't want to. People crashing planes into buildings of innocent people is a just cause for war.

Even if the people we're going after weren't the ones who crashed the planes.

So are saying the roadside bombs in Iraq are completely unrelated to 9/11?

[MorellasForest]

Environmentalism is a political religion that is at many points antithetical to biblical Christianity. War is not wrong for Christians either. There is no draft, so you don't have to sign up if you don't want to. People crashing planes into buildings of innocent people is a just cause for war.

I don't like getting into political arguments---really, I don't---but my BS meter went through the roof after reading this. Environmentalism goes against Biblical Christianity? How? No wait, you can't even tell me how, because it doesn't. See, I'm a conservative just as you no doubt are, but I for one can't stand to be affiliated with the conservative party because I see too many people exactly like you mouthing off about issues they are totally ignorant about.

You want to base your politics on the Bible? Fine. Show me a passage where God told Adam to hunt down every animal to extinction. Show me where God instructed the twelve tribes of Judah to cut down every tree and use the Earth and its oceans therein as one colossal waste dump. Please, just SHOW ME THE SCRIPTURE where God Almighty instructed mortal, carnal man to not care for the Earth, the very Earth which He created for His own Glory!

Oh, and just so you know--the war in Iraq had nothing at all to do with 911.

Environmentalism is a political religion that is at many points antithetical to biblical Christianity. For example, environmentalists believe in Mother Earth and evolution, whereas Christians believe in the Trinity and God creating man from the dust. Environmentalists place their need for caring for the environment above all. Christians follow the love the Lord your God and love your neighbor. Environmentalists care for the rain forests and the oceans, but do not show the same love for the unborn. Christians believe that every life is precious because we are made in the image of God. Stewardship of the earth is fine, but it was not included in the greatest commandment from Jesus and therefore we must not act as though it is worthy of the same amount of attention. This is not primarily an issue of politics, but an issue of worldview.

[Nikmis]

There is such a thing as a just war. World War II is a great example of that. What might have happened if everyone here thought war was inherently evil and must not be attempted?

So innocent people can die because its for the better good. Do you think that is a christian principle? Some people make the argument that unborn babies die for the better good. The huge drop in crime rates in the 90's is directly attributable to the legalization of abortions in the 1970's. People who were unable to raise children successfully had fewer children, thus resulting in fewer broken families, which of course is where most crime comes from. I disagree with this, because murder is not justified by the greater good concept. Same with war. Innocent people are murdered in war. Thats all that happens in war. A few famous nobodies are put into power or taken out of power, and all the while they murder people. And they do their best to convince christians to support them. The same christians that act aghast at unborn babies being murdered just nod their heads in approval at loss of life in war as a result of collateral damage.

If you are going to avoid voting for democrats because of the abortion thing, then you had better not vote for republicans because of the war-mongering thing.

[xoxos]

i shouldn't..

MORELLAS FOREST:

wikipedia > operation northwoods. true, it never happened, but the cia cooked it up and proposed it.

what was it? blow up a few americans/places in the u.s. to popularly justify an invasion of cuba.

pull your thumb out! the u.s. government is not a holy government in jesus' name. it is largely implicated by pecuniary interest who use your dogma to manipulate your opinion on what is justifiable.

or perhaps you didn't see the huge amount fo crass and illegitimate anti-moslem propaganda circulated since 9/11.. the ones that quote the koran against the moslems as "divine retribution" by verse number, when the koran has no verse numbers!

how does it go? don't believe half of what you see and a quarter of what you hear??? you CANNOT generalise all of the reactions to american invasion as being from the same principle. half of them were probably pissed because someone in their family was slain and had NOTHING to do with religion or ideology.

the same as you - "oh, iraq invasion because of 9/11" how naive.

check this out -
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101106/ap_ ... _sweden_us



now -

ABOUT ENVIRONMENTALISM

cletus - i don't wish to belittle your intellect, but your penchant for bundling all environmentalists as a "FAITH" ??????

pull your tiny little finger out!!!!!!! widen your horizons!!!!


i already said in this threa d- i'm a jain. the primary adherence of jains (the 8th most populous global religion and THE WORLD'S OLDEST RECORDED BELIEF SYSTEM) is ahimsa - complete nonviolence.

complete nonviolenc ein that the ten rules of the jain kingdoms were such as "DO NOT WALK FOOLISHLY ON THE GRASS IN CASE YOUR FOOTFALL UNNECESSARILY FRIGHTEN AND CAUSE ALARM TO A SMALL CREATURE"

yes - there were jainist KINGDOMS that lived at this level of consideration and compassion.

seeing all of creation as sacred is not a crime against god, it is loving god in all of god's expression.

you're not going to tell me that some alleged "christian" who thinks it's okay to kick the heads off chickens (check out the videos) to make weiners is practicing husbandry/being a good "caretaker" or however you envaluate it. it's INSENSITIVE, CRASS AND PLAIN JUSTIFICATION OF CONSUMERIST METHOD WE HAVE BECOME ACCUSTOMED TO.

you want to eat meat? i hope you slaughter those animals conscionably, however it is that you determine caretaking and slaughter to be conscionable.

essentially, what you embody is a foolish denigration of political values that your pastor doesn't want you to have. don't be an environmentalist because then his cousin who owns that construction company is going to have a hard time securing that juicy contract!!!!!

and believe me - i'm not even getting started. that's what you can think about before i bother to respond to you seriously, with focus.

there are a lot of ways to read the bible, and there are a lot of ways to buy BULL because your entire community is generations deep in contrivance. you are the timber colony, my dear.

[xoxos]

and again, the primary point i wish to emphasise is that you are both guilty of lumping myriad vectors together..

people are environmentalists because they are environmentalists, not because they have sex with bulls.

environmentalists can come from as many different ideological, religious or spiritual backgrounds as there are ideological, religious or spiritual backgrounds.

the same with people in iraq who resented the u.s. invasion. they are not all like in a cartoon, swaying back and forth going "we are the moslems, and we like to blow up americans!"


don't be so ignorant!

profoundly, deeply, immensely ignorant and disrespectful of the diversity of identity present in societies!

people are individuals!

[jjmini]

I like you xoxos I dig what you're saying since Ive been researching concepts like this for a long time.

Also, if anyone wants to do further research here are all these nice little documents released due to the FOIA act. The amount of sinister scheming and dark arts our highest minds have been delving in are as far from Christ as one can get =(.
http://www.theblackvault.com/m/articles ... ollections


Really, its kind of disturbing knowing our world leaders get together and partake in mock ritual sacrifices in the Bohemian Grove. Just remember that Obama is just more of the same garbage. So stop letting American politics divide you and distract from the real truths in this world. /takes off tinfoil hat