If I was an established recording artist....

[Dr. M]

...I would not want to be classified as "Christian music", even though I am a Christian. This is because:

A) I don't want to be associated with that market. That label is very limiting, in so far as who you can reach and where you tend to play shows, etc.

B) More practically, the songs I write pretty much never address my faith specifically. I don't sing about God or the church, therefor I simply think the label "Christian music" would be misleading, false advertising.

What are your thoughts? People here are much more conservative than I'm used to, so I'm wondering if some of you think this is wrong for me to say or what have you.

[iancurtis51880]

Ha! That is my feeling exactly. I couldn't agree more. I don't force God into a box and only allow Him to do certain things at certain times, so neither would I do the same to myself.

[shine.is.dead]

"Christian music " is a bizarre term because music is amoral. Christian lyrics, yes, but Christian music, no. So really it depends on the lyrical content.

The main problem is that the Christian music industry is so limiting. I would want to be established in the mainstream market on a mainstream label, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't be explicit in my lyrics if I felt called directly to preach or worship in a song.

[iancurtis51880]

"Christian music " is a bizarre term because music is amoral. Christian lyrics, yes, but Christian music, no. So really it depends on the lyrical content.

The main problem is that the Christian music industry is so limiting. I would want to be established in the mainstream market on a mainstream label, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't be explicit in my lyrics if I felt called directly to preach or worship in a song.

The thing is, though, that when a performer or band gets explicit about his/her/their faith, it marginalizes. Maybe I'm wrong, but the message of Christ doesn't usually ingratiate them to a non-Christian audience, so a career on a mainstream label doesn't seem very likely. Just my two cents, if it's worth even that. LOL

[Dr. M]

"Christian music " is a bizarre term because music is amoral. Christian lyrics, yes, but Christian music, no. So really it depends on the lyrical content.

Music is amoral? Explain.

The thing is, though, that when a performer or band gets explicit about his/her/their faith, it marginalizes. Maybe I'm wrong, but the message of Christ doesn't usually ingratiate them to a non-Christian audience, so a career on a mainstream label doesn't seem very likely. Just my two cents, if it's worth even that. LOL

I don't know, I honestly think it depends on how legitimate you are as an artist. No matter what genre you're in, if your songs are good and people like how you play, they mostly won't care what you sing about, as long as it's legitimately good. Sufjan Stevens seems to be able to maintain a diverse following despite being pretty explicit about faith in his lyrics.

There aren't too many artists that can do that though, I don't think. Whenever faith is described explicitly in songs, it usually gives them an automatic cornball / cringe factor. Was there anything about the melody or instrumentation of "Children of the Lord" that makes it so hard to listen to now? No, it's lines like "carry in your hearts the great commandment, don't take the cross for granted". It's possible to like the song, but only for its unbelievable corniness. This is why I don't address Christianity directly in my songs.

[phlegm]

...I would not want to be classified as "Christian music", even though I am a Christian.

I'm not sure I get the logic of what you're saying. If you were established, then wouldn't you already be classified as "Christian" or "secular"? Are you saying you would never sign with a specifically Christian label, at least given the music you presently make?

[iancurtis51880]

"Christian music " is a bizarre term because music is amoral. Christian lyrics, yes, but Christian music, no. So really it depends on the lyrical content.

Music is amoral? Explain.

The thing is, though, that when a performer or band gets explicit about his/her/their faith, it marginalizes. Maybe I'm wrong, but the message of Christ doesn't usually ingratiate them to a non-Christian audience, so a career on a mainstream label doesn't seem very likely. Just my two cents, if it's worth even that. LOL

I don't know, I honestly think it depends on how legitimate you are as an artist. No matter what genre you're in, if your songs are good and people like how you play, they mostly won't care what you sing about, as long as it's legitimately good. Sufjan Stevens seems to be able to maintain a diverse following despite being pretty explicit about faith in his lyrics.

There aren't too many artists that can do that though, I don't think. Whenever faith is described explicitly in songs, it usually gives them an automatic cornball / cringe factor. Was there anything about the melody or instrumentation of "Children of the Lord" that makes it so hard to listen to now? No, it's lines like "carry in your hearts the great commandment, don't take the cross for granted". It's possible to like the song, but only for its unbelievable corniness. This is why I don't address Christianity directly in my songs.

Ok, I can agree with you about Sufjan Stevens(even though I'm not a fan), but I really agree with the first two sentences of your last paragraph. That's the point I was unsuccessful in making. It's that 'cheesy/corny' thing that puts people off. I don't think one has to be explicit about Christianity to tell about faith. Faith is about living everyday life and getting through it with God's help. A song doesn't have to be rife with bible verses and jargon to get that across to people.

[Dr. M]

...I would not want to be classified as "Christian music", even though I am a Christian.

I'm not sure I get the logic of what you're saying. If you were established, then wouldn't you already be classified as "Christian" or "secular"? Are you saying you would never sign with a specifically Christian label, at least given the music you presently make?

As I became established, I would not market myself to the Christian market. If that makes sense. I wouldn't sign to a Christian label, I wouldn't distribute to Christian bookstores, I wouldn't play Christian music festivals, etc.

Ok, I can agree with you about Sufjan Stevens(even though I'm not a fan), but I really agree with the first two sentences of your last paragraph. That's the point I was unsuccessful in making. It's that 'cheesy/corny' thing that puts people off. I don't think one has to be explicit about Christianity to tell about faith. Faith is about living everyday life and getting through it with God's help. A song doesn't have to be rife with bible verses and jargon to get that across to people.

Right, that's what I think is part of being a legitimate artist. If you are able to specifically address your faith without it sounding forced or corny or cheap, then that won't limit your audience.

[iancurtis51880]

One of my biggest beefs with the so-called 'Christian music world' is that, instead of setting the standards/trends in creativity, they create pale imitations of what's happened(ing) in the secular arena(and somehow truly believe they're being edgy). Shouldn't we be as, or more, creative and thoughtful as our non-Christian counterparts? Methinks so.

[Dr. M]

That's not just the Christian market though, that's the whole gosh-durn kitten-kabootle. A band like Coldplay gets really popular and then BOOM there are lots and lots of little Coldplays running around. It was even that way back with the Beatles and them. It's how the industry is, it's driven by profit, whatever is making money, that's what they'll make. It is a shame the Christian market can't rise above that, though. In fact, what they're doing could be called worse, because they take carbon copies of the style and add Jesus lyrics to it, in a cynical attempt to cash in with the youth group junkies. It's pretty sacrilegious if you think about it.

I still can't get past that music is amoral remark. What does that mean??

[theoneandonly2]

It means that there is nothing inherently good or evil in music itself. The lyrics to a song are what make the song moral and not the music. There would be some who would argue that some music is immoral if it has a certain beat or certain chord progressions etc.

However, I would put my two cents in and say that as Christian's our songs should express our new life. Christianity is not just another segment of our life. It is our life. Therefore, everything we do should speak of and point to our Saviour. That is part of our obedience to go and spread the Gospel. All things we do should be to bring glory to our Creator and not ourselves. And I do agree that "some" Christian songs are corny but not most. They will probably be corny or offensive to non-christians because Christianity is offensive to our sin nature and to one whose heart is closed, of course it will sound corny.

Just my 2 cents.

[iancurtis51880]

It means that there is nothing inherently good or evil in music itself. The lyrics to a song are what make the song moral and not the music. There would be some who would argue that some music is immoral if it has a certain beat or certain chord progressions etc.
However, I would put my two cents in and say that as Christian's our songs should express our new life. Christianity is not just another segment of our life. It is our life. Therefore, everything we do should speak of and point to our Saviour. That is part of our obedience to go and spread the Gospel. All things we do should be to bring glory to our Creator and not ourselves. And I do agree that "some" Christian songs are corny but not most. They will probably be corny or offensive to non-christians because Christianity is offensive to our sin nature and to one whose heart is closed, of course it will sound corny.

Just my 2 cents.

I've heard some people argue for that. I think it's ridiculous, though. It always seemed obvious to me that those people were just using that argument to bolster a personal prejudice against a type of music.

[Robbie]

For crying out loud; how many more times will we have this conversation?

[iancurtis51880]

For crying out loud; how many more times will we have this conversation?

Until someone says, "For crying out loud, how many more times will we have this conversation?"

[Dr. M]

I've heard some people argue for that. I think it's ridiculous, though. It always seemed obvious to me that those people were just using that argument to bolster a personal prejudice against a type of music.

I didn't know people still believed this, until my dad (who teaches private piano) received from one of his student's parents an article that must have been like from 1980, that explained all about how the rhythms in rock are inherently sinful, and bad for your health (they conflict with the natural rhythms of your heartbeat). Apparently these people still believed this. And when I went to a private school, I had to sign a contract that said, "I will not listen to rock and roll". It's pretty funny, actually.

However, I would put my two cents in and say that as Christian's our songs should express our new life. Christianity is not just another segment of our life. It is our life. Therefore, everything we do should speak of and point to our Saviour. That is part of our obedience to go and spread the Gospel. All things we do should be to bring glory to our Creator and not ourselves. And I do agree that "some" Christian songs are corny but not most. They will probably be corny or offensive to non-christians because Christianity is offensive to our sin nature and to one whose heart is closed, of course it will sound corny.

I think it's possible for music to reflect our new life without explicitly describing it. Also, I think it's interesting sometimes to create a sort of third-person narrative with your music, describing feelings and beliefs you yourself don't necessarily hold, just as a sort of commentary. There are certain human conditions that are universal, saved or not.

For crying out loud; how many more times will we have this conversation?

I was waiting for a nay-sayer like you to tell us our conversation is dumb. There always has to be one on this forum. Usually it's me, but I couldn't very well do that when I started this thread.

[Hotrod]

Christian music = the Velvet Underground, Judee Sill, the Go-Betweens, Pet Shop Boys, etc.

[Gildas]

If I was an established artist I would dress up like a guy from the American Revolution and sing about misusing alcohol and running around with loose women.

[iancurtis51880]

We're all called to be witnesses for Christ, but how many of us walk around using religious jargon and quoting Bible verses in our numerous daily conversations? Not many, I think. We don't do it in our normal conversations(unless we're in church or some other locale where it's appropriate), so why would a musician who is a Christian feel obligated to do it in a song? There's more to glorifying God than doing that.

[iancurtis51880]

Christian music = the Velvet Underground, Judee Sill, the Go-Betweens, Pet Shop Boys, etc.

Sorry?

[Hotrod]

Christian music = the Velvet Underground, Judee Sill, the Go-Betweens, Pet Shop Boys, etc.

Sorry?

All artists whose work, secular in origin as it may be, directly speaks to mankind's suffering under sin nature and desire for absolution and forgiveness in the face of existential dread.